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Vince Basile (Mr Canada 1970) fait le point !

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Vince Basile (Mr Canada 1970) fait le point !

Messagepar Vincent le 21/10/2003 18h29

Vince Basile :

PART I

"As you know the mechanics of muscular hypertrophy leave much to be desired. The lack of knowledge results in much confusion in the semi-scientific world of trainees and theorists. We use notions that hardly anyone knows much about. I will give examples. Disruption, damage, DOMS, growth, microtrauma, synthesis, adaptation. There are so many words that mean almost nothing except they make the user sound informed and educated.

How on earth are we going to find out about hypertrophy if few scientists are interested? That is always going to be a huge problem. Mediocre and obscure research is hardly going to tell us what is going on inside the muscles. Maybe the government, instead of fining people for steroid use, should be giving huge grants to discover how muscles grow. If we have more knowledge then we won't have to abuse our bodies with dangerous drugs.

I find it rather hypocritical that the authorities bury the truth about drug usage. It is not only strength athletes and bodybuilders who use drugs. Many athletes do and mask or hide the fact. The plain truth is stronger athletes have more power and perform better. So instead of drugging athletes why aren't scientists trying to discover how and why muscles grow? A mystery. Maybe the drug companies don't want everyone to know the truth. I have always believed that drugs are not necessary. When I say such things everyone laughs. But how do they know what is possible? When we abandon hope we sell our souls to the black market drug peddlers. Most believe they need drugs to get big so that is what they do.

It is possible that new substances will be found that contribute to growth much like vitamins do for health. They will be natural and safe to use in appropriate quantities.

I wish more people embraced philosophy AND science. That combination is formidable. However, there are few examples on the net. Either a person has one orientation or the other. Well, truth be told most are hardly philosophers. I would call them self-styled gurus. Our sport resembles alternative medicine will all manner of strange practices and theories!

According to the Stress theory if you stress a muscle it should adapt. The trick is how to constantly stress a muscle. Everyone knows that this is not easy to do. The typical result is that most people are not gaining. They remain the same. This is predicted by the Stress theory. It is my hunch that certain kinds of training result in Stress adaptation. If we want muscular hypertrophy then the stress had better be a result of protocols that are used to build muscle.

I did a thought experiment. Would an outsider be aware of two trainees who had different philosophies and methods? If one did the typical Gold's Gym Venice fare and someone next to him was a disciple of DOMS could you tell the difference? No. Why? Because they might be doing similar workouts. Those workouts that result in DOMS are good ones while those that do not end up in soreness are unproductive. The DOMS trainees are forever experimenting to try to sustain soreness. Novelty and intensity are well known to these people. However, they know that all protocols can be adapted to and the repeated bout effect stalls progress. They have to sidestep or overcome the tendency of the body to adapt to protocols.

There are known practices that favour hypertrophy. We do not abandon these practices. There is a positive relationship between size and strength so we try to augment both while concentrating on size. Experience will get us results. Eventually, for most!

I tell guys at my gym that using spotters in counterproductive. Why? Well, soon enough the body will adapt to that strategy of pushing to the limit. The down side is you will believe you need those spotters while the truth is they are doing you no good at all. Occasionally you can use spotters but that isn't the main stimulus for hypertrophy.

HST is supposed to be based on science. Bryan cleverly avoids any in depth discussions re the merits of other methods. He posts position statements and that is the end of the matter. Instead of elevating philosophy as it should be he ignors it by having important posts among those "how-many-reps-are-better" posts.

Why have a scientific site if you are not going to debate serious matters? Seems pointless to me. Get on with publishing a book and forget about other theories and methods.

In the end we all want a scientific training method that leads to the most rapid gains while being safe at the same time. We want to know everything about the hypertrophy-hyperplasia process. At the moment it is rather chaotic. In the vacuum jump in all manner of pseudo-experts who believe they are knowledgeable. The truth is most of us know bugger all about science. Others have a clue about making gains. The rest are observers. They remind me of the discontented who complain about the price and quality of grain but cannot pay the price."


PART II

"I invite critics and dissenters to debate herein and not take comments to other sites.

It is so easy to prove a theory in bodybuilding. Merely show the world what you can achieve yourself. HST has had long enough to produce champions. I predict there will be few if any champions produced from that method. HST will work to a point and then results will be non-existent. Beginners and intermediate people will benefit but not advanced men. Why? The method is not intense enough to induce maximum hypertrophy. Not even close.

So, instead of pounding away at keyboards I challenge HST believers to show us your results. Build those huge arms and calves and let us see the results. How long do you need? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?

With the DOMS method you should see results in a very short period of time. It should frighten and amaze you.

Now, why don't I show you good people? It is too hard! And I am not motivated to do all that hard work. I know the method works. It has to work. Rapid gains at last.

Of course I allow that there are assembled on the combined internet discussion boards every slow growing trainee out there. These people go from board to board and system to system hoping it will give them what they want. They embrace the language and logic and away they go. Results are mediocre so they move on to the next hopeful place. Every so often I see guys like this in the gym. They have systems and books that explain these systems. They ask deep questions. But they never seem to pay their dues. They remain weak and never seem to train hard. Instead they believe if only they had the right method they would get results. Those results seldom ever come their way. I smile when I see these blokes. Eventually they lose some hair and still plod away in the gym oblivious to the hopelessness of it all. Truth be told they wouldn't be able to sustain DOMS if their lives depended on it. They just cannot train hard enough to do any such thing.

Ah, the joys of being a gym owner. It is much better staying in a factory designing gym equipment. At least then you don't have to associate with the pseudo-experts who populate gyms."

wai... je pense qu'il y a du vrai quand il parle de l'état de la recherche dans le domaine de l'hypertrophie. Ca fait des décénnies que Vince regarde le monde du Strength Training. Il en revient toujours à la meilleure méthode qui soit selon lui : la DOMS méthode !

a essayer peutêtre ! pour volume/fréquence/intensité selon Vince, si y en a qui sont intéressés je peux détailler.
Gagner du muscle : Progressive Resistance
Perdre du gras : Input < Output
Strict Curl 1x58kg
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Les idiots ne guerrissent qu'en mourant.
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Vince Basile (Mr Canada 1970) fait le point !

Messagepar Fred le 21/10/2003 18h34

c'est pas le 5*5*8rm sa DOMS méthode?
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Vince Basile (Mr Canada 1970) fait le point !

Messagepar Fabrice SP le 22/10/2003 09h50

Tu nous la déjà donné cet article, non ?

HST has had long enough to produce champions. I predict there will be few if any champions produced from that method. HST will work to a point and then results will be non-existent. Beginners and intermediate people will benefit but not advanced men. Why? The method is not intense enough to induce maximum hypertrophy. Not even close.


:D
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Vince Basile (Mr Canada 1970) fait le point !

Messagepar Vincent le 22/10/2003 18h14

non mais Vince est comme moi il RABACHE !!!!

to put muscles into the growth motion you must experiment DOMS !!! without doms maximum hypertrophy is unlikely !

oui Fred 5x5 mais plutot avec son 5-6RM ! et que 2 exos : SQT et CHINS ou PULLDOWN (prise supination ou palms facing, sinon d'après Vince* on va pas pouvoir développer suffisement le dos).

*Vince est concepteur et créateur de machines, et il conseille vivement la pise supination ou palms facing pour les tractions (tout comme AJ).
Gagner du muscle : Progressive Resistance
Perdre du gras : Input < Output
Strict Curl 1x58kg
Bakawa shinanakya naoranai
Les idiots ne guerrissent qu'en mourant.
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Vince Basile (Mr Canada 1970) fait le point !

Messagepar Laurent L. le 22/10/2003 18h28

Question bête, ça consiste en quoi la méthode DOMS :wtf: ?

(parce que là je trouve pas l'article super clair!)
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Vince Basile (Mr Canada 1970) fait le point !

Messagepar Fred le 22/10/2003 18h31

comment il fait pour faire 5 séries de 5 reps avec son 5-6RM il prend 8 minutes de pause entre les sets ou quoi?Ca doit être dangereux au squat, uen série de trop et crak, plus de dos :wtf:
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Vince Basile (Mr Canada 1970) fait le point !

Messagepar Vincent le 22/10/2003 22h06

Oui Vince dit que ca peut être dangereux mais que c'est que avec une méthode extreme qu'on obtient des résultats extremes !

Laurent le but est d'avoir des courbatures après chaque entrainement, Vince conseille de travailler chaque muscle tous les 4-5 jours et ce avec que 2 exos.
Gagner du muscle : Progressive Resistance
Perdre du gras : Input < Output
Strict Curl 1x58kg
Bakawa shinanakya naoranai
Les idiots ne guerrissent qu'en mourant.
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Vince Basile (Mr Canada 1970) fait le point !

Messagepar Laurent L. le 22/10/2003 22h11

Ah, ok, merci Vincent pour l'explication, ce qui veut dire que je fais un peu du DOMS, sans le savoir, j'ai des courbatures presque à chaque fois :D

Mais bon, faut dire aussi que dès que j'essaye un nouveau mouvement, je "découvre" un nouvel endroit de mon corps qui n'a visiblement jamais travaillé !!
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