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Un physique fonctionnel : BDJ vs Pavel

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Un physique fonctionnel : BDJ vs Pavel

Messagepar Vincent le 26/11 21h47

"As Pavel comments:

T: You’re pretty quick to call out bodybuilders and their "fake" muscles. What’s so bad about being big?

Pavel: It’s a matter of preference, but in some activities super-sizing is inappropriate. Middleweight weightlifters are the strongest relative to their bodyweight. You don’t see many 250 pound rock climbers because, well, they’re all dead. As your bodyweight increases and you get heavier, your relative strength gets compromised more and more. Take a SWAT officer who has to carry 45 pounds of gear plus his bodyweight. If he weighs too much, he won’t be able to get over a fence or climb into a window fast enough. So where relative strength is an issue, being too big is inappropriate.

T: So you’re more about functional, real world strength?

Pavel: [snip] If you have any sense you should ask two questions: 1) How many of your guys does it take to bench press 500 pounds? and 2) How is the bench press supposed to help you with any of the physical demands of your duty? One of the top tactical officers in the state of Texas, a Brit named Mark from SAPD, kicked butt at the last state SWAT competition. The man can knock off twenty-some pull-ups and does rock bottom one-legged squats with ease. How much does this officer bench? He tried it once and did 225. Not a bench press to write home about. But that it is the point.

Unless you are training purely for looks, you must focus on the strength needed for your sport, job, or lifestyle.

Grappling - Coaches such as Karl Gotch (SuperPhysique?) and Matt Furey recommend "train as the animal does"...a variety of bodyweight movements always within your limitations. I found an old article. A friend, who I was chatting with about my research, noted that Furey was in a wrestling match with a bodybuilder powerlifter who was probably using some "artificial assistance" a few years ago and Furey, who only does bodyweight training--pushups, bodyweight squats, etc.--apparently took the poor weight trainer down three times!

Other Sports - Football, field athletes, etc. Could only find limited examples of HIT/HD/Train-to-failure pro athletes. The Washington Redskins did it at one time; so did the Cincinnati Bengals of the NFL. In fact, the success of pure strength style athletes in the NFL has been abysmal...witness the failure of the World's Strongest Man, Bill Kazmier, when I tried out for a pro football team. Never made it out of training camp. Or for that matter, the performances of the late Mike Mentzer, Lou Ferrigno and Franco Columbu at the old World's Strongest Men events. Had a very difficult time keeping up with the more athletic strong men and football players in events requiring strength and skill and did not have the pure power of the strength athletes."


"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Complete BS.

Mentzer, Ferrigno, Kazmier, etc. ALL ON STEROIDS.

Take an average person who is not on drugs and who is not FAT (abs clearly visible) and who focuses on building muscle. Chances are that person will never exceed 200 pounds.

Consequently, it is complete BS that Pavel would warn the AVERAGE PUBLIC against building as much muscle as possible, as they would become "less functional".

He's against it because he likely does not know how to do it, or that muscle does not build well on his "system" that he is attempting to push (which I can understand). Check out his physique. I'd rather be a bit less functional, yet look better than he does. I'm not saying he looks "bad", but my concept of a developed physique does not embody his body.

There are plenty of wirey and skinny people out there who are very strong for their body weight, but that does not mean much to me. Or consider the strength to weight ratios of children (particular young female gymnasts). Do I want to look like them if I could achieve their ability?

Regardless of what many people may claim on this or any other board ("I'm focusing on strength gains"), there is a big "ego" part of exercise, which means we want to look better. Ever notice at strong man competitions that even the "fat" flex their arms (during cameo spotlights)? "
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Un physique fonctionnel : BDJ vs Pavel

Messagepar Fred le 26/11 22h03

Intéressant.

Mais Furey, il peut aller se cacher son site est 100% commercial, laisse lui ton e-mail, et il t'harcélera pourque t'achètes son livre (en gros "comment faire des pompes et des squats a vide" :rolleyes: ).
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Un physique fonctionnel : BDJ vs Pavel

Messagepar ML34 le 26/11 22h08

en parlant des pompes a vide je publierai bientot un topic pour pouvoir en tirer un avantage sans pour autant se taper 100 reps et sur les tas de techniques que j'ai pu trouver sur moi-meme
je ferai des shemas et j'expliquerai un peu tout ca.


Edit : tres interessant vincent ton article je suis pa mal d'accord avec pavel sur certain point :D
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Un physique fonctionnel : BDJ vs Pavel

Messagepar Fabrice SP le 27/11 09h57

BDJ marque des points !

C'est clair que l'argumentation de Pavel pour le gars naturel ne vaut pas grand chose ! Un gars naturel n'est probablement jamais tellement big au point d'avoir une incapacité à se mouvoir, et est bien souvent très fort (s'il est big) !

Je suis aussi d'accord que Pavel est une crevette, mais de là à dire que c'est une merde et qu'il prone le fonctionnel parce qu'il est incapable de se développer avec ses routines, c'est un peu pousser le bouchon !
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Un physique fonctionnel : BDJ vs Pavel

Messagepar Franck B. le 27/11 13h32

Mark Locicero a écrit:en parlant des pompes a vide je publierai bientot un topic pour pouvoir en tirer un avantage sans pour autant se taper 100 reps et sur les tas de techniques que j'ai pu trouver sur moi-meme
je ferai des shemas et j'expliquerai un peu tout ca.


J'attend ce topic avec impatience !
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Un physique fonctionnel : BDJ vs Pavel

Messagepar Fred le 27/11 20h06

Pavel ne fait pas de bodybuilding, il s'entraine avec des kettlebells avec lesquelles il fait des mouvements balistiques en séries longues.

C'est vrai qu'il a pas un super physique, plutôt mince quoi!
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