Forums SuperPhysique

Lanvin a écrit:
Je commence à me dire que le meilleur entrainement pour la force est l'haltero et pas le power.

je veux dire, en ne faisant que du travaille d'haltero es que l'on arrive à obtenir une bonne force sur les exo de muscu de base?

en faisant de l'haltero on fait une sorte de DM avec élan, es que cela apporte un grosse force au DM classique?

Seb33 a écrit:pas trop d'accord lanvin,

Fred a écrit:

Lanvin a écrit:
Je commence à me dire que le meilleur entrainement pour la force est l'haltero et pas le power.

ERREUR:

Le meilleur entrainement pour la force pure est celui de force athlétique, ce n'est plus a démontrer, vu les charges que soulèvent les powerlifters.

Par contre l'haltérophilie est ce qu'il y a de mieux si l'on recherche la puissance(force*vitesse).

greyowl, we usually agree on most things but im gonna have to disagree with you on this one. ive competed in highland games, Ol, PL, and even a bit of strongman for fun... and i know and have trained with more than a few of the top guys in each sport. and ill say without a doubt that there isnt a highland games athlete alive that is as strong as any one of the top 5 superheavy olympic lifters.

let me give you a couple of examples for comparison, exercises that all of the above sports do for training.

military press... there are some strongman competitors who do in the low 400's, as well as some highland games guys and some bodybuilders even. but when the press was an event in OL, the top guys were doing over 500lbs. you mighyt say that the "lay-back" olympic style of pressing has something to do with this, but most other athletes get some knee kick to get the weight started, and some of the OLers such as redding and patera did VERY strict presses with in excess of 500lbs. this is just plain stronger than other strength athletes.

power cleans... you might say that the squat clean and snatch are specialized, and OLers ahve an advantage. well, most strongmen, highland games guys, shot putters, etc, all do powercleans. jud logan was famous in the track and field world for a 440lb powerclean. from my experience, most highland games guys do less than 400lbs, but i do know a couple who have done 400lbs. i dont know any strongman competitors who have done 400, but i suspect some have. i know a couple of powerlifters who have done 400lbs, one is chuck V., and i know gary frank, who is regarded as the best and strongest powerlifter ever at superheavy has done 440lbs. ed coan reports having done 425. these guys are the best of the best in their respective sports. but the best olympic lifters powerclean above 500lbs. krastev did 529. friends tell me kurlovick did 529 also. jaber reportedly did 550 while training in bulgaria, weighing less than 300lbs. again, the OLers arent in a whole other class, but they are a bit stronger in a common exercise.

squats. lets talk squats without powerlifting equipment. i know coan has done 825. i know several strongmen who report lifts between 750 and 800 for full squats. there are numerous shot putters and disc throwers who are in the 700-800 range. ive never personally known or seen a highland games guy with that huge of a squat, i do know one in particular who has done 700lbs, hes regareded in highland games circles as a monster with bad technique but strength to spare. but in OL, the record for the old dynamo club in the soviet union is 1014. tarenenko did 837lbs for a triple with a 2 second pause at the bottem of each rep. kurlovich is reported to have done reps with 880 very easily. ive seen shane do 804 with such ease that it looked like a warmup, and hes not even in the top 10 in the world. he definately got a 900lb olympic squat to go along with his official 1008 powerlifting squat. so again, the top OLers are a bit stronger.

now, im not trying to just be pro OL here, so i want to tell you WHY, in my opinion, the top OLers are a bit stronger than the top guys in other sports...

let me give you an example, jaber of bulgaria. he is totally state supported, he has no job. he trains 6-8 hours a day, that is his job. that is his only life. no worries about bills, food, drugs. everything is provided, he just has to train. compare to a highland ccompetitor. most likely, he has a job, and trains as a hobby. he travels every weekend throughout the season to compete, which he must do if he wants to make any money at all. same for strongman, although they dont compete as often. double that for powerlifters, they cant make a living at the sport. its a hobby.

IF the current crop of strongmen, highland games athletes, powerlifters, were state supported, and trained under the same conditions at the top OLers, would they reach the same levels of strength? probably. but until that happens, they probably wont

Lanvin a écrit:
PS:c'est relatif fred, encore un fois ca depends de ce que l'on entend par force.

>>>>>> Il faut appeller les choses par ce qu'elles sont: la force, la vraie, la pure, tu en as une démonstration avec le powerlifting, les mouvements sont lents, parce que la tension est maximale au niveau des muscles.


Je ne pense pas qu'un power lifter soit capable de soulever 200kg au dessus de leur tete.
>>>>>>ça c'est la puissance (force*vitesse), la charge(et donc la tension) étant moins importante, tu vas donner de la vitesse a la barre, c'est un effort de type explosif.

Mais bon, on va pas debattre sur "qui est le plus fort entre haltero et power" chacun d'eux est meilleur dans ses mouvements propre.

>>>>>Le plus fort est le powerlifter, le plus puissant l'haltérophile, donc oui c'est clair il n'y a pas matière a débattre, puisque ce sont des formes d'efforts différents.

Lanvin a écrit:oui ok,
la force mequanique d'un power est evidement superieur.
En fait au lieu de dire "ca depend de ce que l'on entend par force" j'aurais dus dire: " ca depends de l'objectif de force que l'on a"

Fabrice P. a écrit:
Néanmoins.... Il faut reconnaitre qu'il est plus facile de faire un transfert de l'haltérophilie à la force athlée que l'inverse !

Fred a écrit:ça dépend si on a comme objectif la force, ou la puissance